Curse

Lishy · Jun 01, 2009, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Only purpose of tactics is for [Deadly Riposite] IW mesmers.

Paul Dawg · Jun 02, 2009, 05:35 AM // 05:35

What other class can do [splinter weapon]?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac0okiemonst3r

tactics is like the entire set of skills by the ritualist: everything it has or is is done better by other classes.

**Marty Silverblade** · Jun 02, 2009, 09:44 AM // 09:44

Eles and Necros. They can't go 14 channeling, which is undoubtedly awesome, but it doesn't justify the other 7 skills on the bar.

Paul Dawg · Jun 02, 2009, 02:28 PM // 14:28

If he meant that secondary /Rt is more effective than primary Rt, then I guess I understand what he means; if he meant that no Rt skills are at all useful (which is what I thought he meant), then he's dead wrong.

And anyway, no other class can be a Rt/Mo 330 farmer.

Beomagi · Jun 02, 2009, 04:42 PM // 16:42

A non elite ias, or buffed tactics ias will probably be enough to bring tactics back to life.

Currently if you're running pve, many of you use warrior's endurance. It's the ultimate energy management for warriors. Not stripable, constantly maintained, no cast time, and gains energy doing what you should be doing - i.e. whacking it.

Who needs elite attacks, when power attack and body blow hit for +40s? Who needs elite eviscerate when you can maintain strength of honor and use dismember? Then hit with a +60 power attack? Got monks? great, half of tactics no longer needs to be used. Need ias? strength has burst of aggression - which for a couple low adr skills and mostly energy skills is no problem for an endurance based warrior. There's flail which has a downside that can be worked around easily (water hero, cripple) etc. Heck - maintaining never rampage alone is also a breeze with warrior's endurance.

Tactics has steady stance + drunken/desperation for damage + effect - It's quite powerful. But it requires 10 energy to start, (yes, you get back up to 8 energy, but that doesn't matter if you can't use it), is difficult to use ias with it, and other that that there's little energy management in tactics. You're using your stance with this, but not actually in a stance - so yeah, it's weak. Buff it by making it not end perhaps? Hell that still wouldn't solve the ias issue.

Let's look down the line.
auspicious parry - a 1v1 skill. Farming skill possibility. FAR from optimal in regular pve.
charge - I like when Devona and Stefan use it - but it's not going to find a spot on my bar - not when incoming and fallback will heal as well.
gladiator's defence - another farming skill.
shove - touch skill kd. Not bad - completely outdone by other pve skills. I'd rather use hammer bash over this though - same loss of adrenaline, but I'd be able to charge a hammer faster, even without ias.
Soldier's stance - Not bad really. Useful with watch yourself. Duration shold be longer though. 10 seconds for 5 energy isn't bad - but needing a shout means "use with watch yourself/FGJ". Using this alone puts the warrior at the limits of his energy regen.
Victory was mine - so, 15 second recharge - who cares about the healing? It's a bonus. The boon from this is the energy. Given that warrior's have 20 energy unless they really pump themselves up, this is hardly optimal. Ideally, as a warrior you'll find a way to get small bits of energy continuously, instead of a whole lot. Hmm - warrior caster in a team of condition spreaders - right...

Skills don't have to change completely - addition of attributes/modification of recharge times/cost can easily bring tactics back. Also, dual attributes - remember lion's comfort when it first came out? it also used tactics. No reason they can't make a tactics skill more powerful by stating a synergy with strength. There - you'll stop other classes from completely ravaging skills.

Bobby2 · Jun 02, 2009, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beomagi

charge - I like when Devona and Stefan use it - but it's not going to find a spot on my bar - not when incoming and fallback will heal as well.

Advocate of the devil once again, mwuhahaha.

The heal on the Para run buffs is... minimal. Never counted on it, never will. On top of that they have this nasty 'end-on-attack' clause which "Charge!" conveniently lacks.

Charge + any IAS = greater than the sum of its parts

EinherjarMx · Jun 02, 2009, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back then

If they double'd the duration on most of the tactics stances, changed healing signet to be -20 armor while casting, and re-worked some of the shouts, it would be really useful again. Chances of this happening are almost 0 though.

(I'm talking mainly about pve)

You get that out of a single skill in strength, and it can be kept up indefinitely.

Hell no! I love hitting 241 dmg on a shellshocked+healsig shrine warr on AB's

edit, the only time I see myself using tactis is when going steady stance + drunken + desperation, add a scythe and there you have condition spamming

Beomagi · Jun 03, 2009, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by EinherjarMx

edit, the only time I see myself using tactis is when going steady stance + drunken + desperation, add a scythe and there you have condition spamming

Unfortunately it wont work. steady stance ends on the first hit - so on the second, you're on your rear.

Arkantos · Jun 03, 2009, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Quote:

If they double'd the duration on most of the tactics stances, changed healing signet to be -20 armor while casting, and re-worked some of the shouts, it would be really useful again. Chances of this happening are almost 0 though.

Wouldn't change much. Generally people don't bring healing signet not because of the -40 armor, but because a self heal on a warrior isn't really needed. As for the stances, all that would do is buff farming builds. Again, generally don't bring the stances not because of the low durations, but because defensive stances on a warrior isn't really needed either.

ac0okiemonst3r · Jun 04, 2009, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Dawg

What other class can do [splinter weapon]?

SS/splinter hero sound familiar? most of the popular necro builds that are N/Rt have either the resto set (life,etc) or channeling(splinter, warmongerer)

vamp08 · Jun 04, 2009, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

[flashing blades] is better than glads. It lasts longer and it works at a distance.

Lol, is there anything sins nowadays CANT do better than warriors?

Reverend Dr · Jun 04, 2009, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by vamp08

Lol, is there anything sins nowadays CANT do better than warriors?

Deal damage?

Bobby2 · Jun 04, 2009, 09:47 PM // 21:47

MS/DB, Asuran Scan. If there's a War build capable of producing higher numbers, I'd like to know (really).

Beomagi · Jun 05, 2009, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

MS/DB, Asuran Scan. If there's a War build capable of producing higher numbers, I'd like to know (really).

Leave out asuran scan - really. Anyone can use that.

ms + db assumes your target lasted long enough for you to hit a full chain + another 2 attacks (ms + db). That's a tough target. It's actually rare i get a full chain out on a target really. I've found assassins can do more damage overall with locusts fury + conjure/soh (ya - aware you can do the above with that too). Even then, the true strength is in how fast energy is restored, and adrenaline is collected for spamming skills like ymlad, dwarven headbutt etc. The advantage with locusts is the more preps you add - e.g. orders, ward, winnowing etc - the more powerful it is over other alternatives - you simply land more hits, so missing attack bonus damage is no issue.

I don't disagree though. Assassins are decent glass cannons. Skills kinda help the "glass" nature, but they're still "glass-er" compared to warriors in regular pve missions.

As long as you're talking chains though, the warrior will be more resilient to disruption/skill disabling. It's mostly just annoying in pve, not as detrimental as in pvp.

Cirian · Jun 12, 2009, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beomagi

Unfortunately it wont work. steady stance ends on the first hit - so on the second, you're on your rear.

Fleeting Stability dervish/warrior. You can also add Grapple for KD on demand in addition to Drunken/Desperate, which are pretty nice with just 10 Tactics (+30 damage). I'm not saying it's good though.

One thing's for sure, Tactics is a /W attribute.

NoXiFy · Jun 15, 2009, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Watch Yourselves! used to be amazing, one of my favorite skills in the game. In HoH it was the one skill that could keep you up vs. 2 teams during altar cap. Having an entire team with +25 armor or w/e was great.

ac0okiemonst3r · Jun 21, 2009, 12:02 AM // 00:02

there's a reason warriors were known as 'meatshields' in the old farming goup builds. so they do that better than sins

sweet555 · Jun 22, 2009, 10:37 AM // 10:37

um... if your pvping, y the hell would you use tactics? i mean your main goal is to pump damage, and str gives armor penetration... so... bad skills in tactics, plus strength being a REALLY GOOD main attr, thats y tacts are gone.

and yes i will fight anyone that says str is a bad attribute

Mad Lord of Milk · Jul 04, 2009, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Once Lion's Comfort came out, there was no reason to invest points into tactics for Healing Signet (at least in PvE - PvP, LC kills res sig). Killed Tactics completely, 'cept for Monking and Tanking purposes.

Paul Dawg · Jul 04, 2009, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Yeah, it's been nerfed out of existence in PvP, but heroes can still use it quite well. The problem is...if you start to invest in tactics in your heroes, what OTHER tactics skills make the investment worthwhile? Not too many.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoXiFy

Watch Yourselves! used to be amazing, one of my favorite skills in the game. In HoH it was the one skill that could keep you up vs. 2 teams during altar cap. Having an entire team with +25 armor or w/e was great.